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Rating Fighters 
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hamed
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Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:51 pm
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Post Re: Rating Fighters
mh2365 wrote:
I think so ... if anything he looked better at LW ... rumors have him stepping up to 147 to fight Oscar ... I really think that is too much for him.


Yeah I agree. And yes I heard about that, heard Oscar didn't like Roach's comments about Oscar being slow & thought Manny could beat him & Arum told Roach to shut his mouth.


Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:14 pm
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Mad Bomber

Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:52 pm
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Post Re: Rating Fighters
I have re-rated some of the retired fighters based on some further research I have done, and one that really sticks out is Hedgemon Lewis who in a 60 fight career was never knocked down, and yet had very high KDR and KO rating which made him a five on the game, and by simply adjusting his knockdown ratings his rating changed to an eight.

I left his TKO ratng as is because he was stopped a few times in his career, including a couple of times by Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez and once by Jose Napoles whose punching power I changed to a 9.

Greg

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Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:36 am
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Jersey-Jim

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:59 pm
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Post Re: Rating Fighters
I've been rating fighters for a long time and have found that the best way to do it is to "freeze frame" a fighter where you think he should be - do the ratings, and then play test him against opponents he found in his prime and past his prime. Take a fighter like Fernando Vargas for instance. After the Felix Trinidad fight, he skills began to noticably erode. After the DeLaHoya fight, his chin was easily dented.

If you rate him based upon his post DeLaHoya fight, he could never produce his Pre-DeLaHoya results.

Fighters like Trinidad and Ike Quartey would mow him down in the early rounds and the fights would never be competitive.
Sometimes it's easier to produce more realistic results by playing with the prime/post-prime settings than trying to find the "middle of the road" with the initial rating.

Gerry Cooney is another example.

After Holmes, he was never the same. His confidence was gone, etc. Rate him based upon the Spinks and Foreman fights and he'll be luck to see the 4th round against Holmes.

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Fri Aug 15, 2008 3:39 pm
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mh2365
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Post Re: Rating Fighters
Good points Jim and welcome to the board ... glad you made it over


Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:10 pm
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a87star

Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:59 pm
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Post Re: Rating Fighters
Jersey-Jim wrote:
I've been rating fighters for a long time and have found that the best way to do it is to "freeze frame" a fighter where you think he should be - do the ratings, and then play test him against opponents he found in his prime and past his prime. Take a fighter like Fernando Vargas for instance. After the Felix Trinidad fight, he skills began to noticably erode. After the DeLaHoya fight, his chin was easily dented.

If you rate him based upon his post DeLaHoya fight, he could never produce his Pre-DeLaHoya results.

Fighters like Trinidad and Ike Quartey would mow him down in the early rounds and the fights would never be competitive.
Sometimes it's easier to produce more realistic results by playing with the prime/post-prime settings than trying to find the "middle of the road" with the initial rating.

Gerry Cooney is another example.

After Holmes, he was never the same. His confidence was gone, etc. Rate him based upon the Spinks and Foreman fights and he'll be luck to see the 4th round against Holmes.


You make some great points about rating Vargas. I look at his career in four stages:

Pro Debut to Campas - Pre Prime (15 fights)
Clarke to Trinidad - Prime (6 fights)
Rivera to Marshall - Post Prime (5 fights)
Joval to Mayorga - End (5 fights)

Just by breaking up his career in those segments you can see how fast his career faded. Vargas was sent to the fire too soon.


Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:48 pm
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Jersey-Jim

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:59 pm
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Post Re: Rating Fighters
Yeah, if you take a look at his first 20-21 fights, you have a totally different picture of the guy. He was tough, had energy to spare, and fought competitively against the some of the best of his time. Even in losing efforts - he gave guys a good run for their money. Pipino Cuevas is another fighter who fits the same description. He was a monster until Hearns. Then he never recovered 100%.

Duran is an example of a fighter who got blown out (against Hearns) but did recover and went on to have some great nights.

So, when I rank a Cuevas, I use rank him at his best. Maybe his KD rating is a 2. Then, in universe play, after he suffers his first knockout or TKO defeat, I move him to post-prime. Otherwise, if I just go by the game's ratings - he doesn't produce realistic results.

Also, don't forget, in the card days, a 3 for your chin meant you had a good/average chin. Now, with the 0 rating, things change a bit. LaMotta used to be a 1. Now he's a 0. Having a 1 for a chin is excellent. If you have a lousey defense, you'll be sporting a 2 against a good fighter in the championship rounds (most likely). If you have a 2 rating for your chin, and you're not anything special on defense, you'll be sporting a "3" against a lot of good fighters in the championship rounds.

Hope that makes sense.

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Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:55 am
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hamed
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Post Re: Rating Fighters
mh2365 wrote:
Good points Jim and welcome to the board ... glad you made it over



I agree, glad you're here too Jim.

Your points about Vargas are dead on. That's another reason I love TB so much, I fight guys like Vargas & others in their prime. We know how he fared after his prime, with TB we can see how he might have done against guys at his peak - prior to the beatings he suffered from Tito & Oscar.

That's why my TB universe is so tough, guys are usually getting the best shot of everyone they face.


Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:40 am
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a87star

Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:59 pm
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Post Re: Rating Fighters
Jersey-Jim wrote:
Yeah, if you take a look at his first 20-21 fights, you have a totally different picture of the guy. He was tough, had energy to spare, and fought competitively against the some of the best of his time. Even in losing efforts - he gave guys a good run for their money. Pipino Cuevas is another fighter who fits the same description. He was a monster until Hearns. Then he never recovered 100%.


In Vargas first 20-21 fights......he had some very good wins:

Anthony Stephens
Yori Boy Campas
Raul Marquez
Winky Wright
Ike Quartey
Ross Thompson

In between all of that he defended the IBF JMW title five times. If you cut his career off right there.......possible HOF'er. Vargas was riding high and you never saw what was coming on the other side of the hill.


Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:44 pm
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Jersey-Jim

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:59 pm
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Post Re: Rating Fighters
Thanks everyone! I'm glad to be here, too. Title Bout is practically a part of the sport itself for a lot of us who've played the game for a long time.
I'm looking forward to them doing something about the graphics of the fighters representing the text of the fight.

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**http://www.TheBoxingMagazine.com**

The Ultimate, Historical Boxing Simulator
30 Years of Development
Title Bout Championship Boxing!
*********************************
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/tb/


Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:05 pm
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Sal

Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 6:01 pm
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Post New Featherweight Rating
moved........

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Last edited by Sal on Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:35 pm
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